I just wanted to make a thread to discuss my game in a way that doesn't interfere with the recap threads and such. Also, I wanted a place to try and recruit players when needed, and contact those who are already playing.
I thought I'd post my house rules also, to see what other DMs, particularly those who play via online media think of them. Some of them are for ease of play. Some are just things I've always done.
Anyway, here they are:
1. Magicusers gain bonus spells according to intelligence just like clerics to with Widsom.
2. Spells do NOT have to be memorized. Any spellcaster, cleric, etc, can cast any spell they can cast. You still have to follow the rules on numbers of spells/level you can cast, you just don't have to memorize before hand. Basically, you gain much versatility. Remember, opposing spellcasters follow the same rule too!
3. No max on spell damage, just like 1st ed. Won't matter for us 1st level guys though. Maybe someday it will mater though.
4. Critical hits will be used, following the tables in the Dragon Article "Good hits and bad misses." The basic system is simple, for every point that you either make or fail an attack roll, that is your chance for a critical. For instance, if you need a 7 to hit and roll a 15 (after modifiers of course), you'd have an 8% chance of a critical. If you rolled a 5 (after modifiers) you'd have a 2% chance of a fumble. As you can tell, the more you progress, the more often you will get criticals rather than fumbles. Unfortunately, this holds true for your foes as well.
5. I'm doing the leveling up more like the computer games. No training, when you have enough you simply are the next level.
6. If you receive MAGICAL healing to bring you back above 0 you can make a system shock roll. Success means you may INSTANTLY begin to take normal actions again. Failure means you must have a day of complete rest first. A Heal spell will eliminate this period.
7. Spell points are now used. The points are based on your total spells/level, from the spell progression chart and with the bonus from (1) above. You get 1 point/spell/spell level. Further, you can cast ANY spells you know, at a cost of 1 point/level.
8. For cure spells, the minimum amount cured will be the caster's level.
9. Illusions KISS rule: Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't try super elaborate and complicated things that make my head explode. If you are going to copy some spell effect, I will use the rules of the actual spell copied. If you decide to go BEYOND the rules, say to make the "perfect fireball" then your targets will get a free chance to disbelieve the spell. This will be IN ADDITION to the normal save vs spells. So, if you try to throw an illusionary fireball, then the targets get a save for half-damage. If you want to cast one that has no save, they will instead save to disbelieve, success of which will mean no effect whatsoever and the knowledge that they are dealing with an illusionist. So, better to stick to the laws of magic, unless you want to risk worse failures.
10. Illusionary creatures: They attack at your combat ability. As long as you concentrate on the illusion, you can keep it fighting; however, if you do anything "beyond the norm" then your targets will get a save to disbelieve.
11. Expanded Proficiency system: complicatedly simple
12. You may use spells from the Great Netbook of Prayers, just ask me first to make sure it's ok.
13. Counterspells: If you ready a counterspell action, then you can counter anything that happens later than your move during a round. If the spell cast against you is one you KNOW, you can cast a like spell to counter it. You create your spell, subtly reversed to counter the opposing spell. Countering in such a case is automatic. If it's a spell you don't know, you can use Dispel Magic with normal chances. No spontaneous castings. I think this would basically only be used by you guys. The wizards can take a defensive roll, especially in situations where the warriors get into combat, and counter enemy wizards. If you don't act, but keep the counterspell action readied for the next round, then you are considered to automatically go first, giving you the ability to "interrupt" anything that round.
14. Spell Aquisition and Casting Directly from a Spellbook
15. Falling Damage: 1d6 first 10', +2d6 next, +3d6 next, to max of 20d6. I.E. 30' fall will be 6d6 damage (1+2+3).
16. Cantrips: (Use unlimited number at will)
17. Level Drains: negative levels rather than losing level. Basically, you don't end up losing levels, but accrue negative modifiers. It's kinda complicated, and I can explain it if people are interested. : )
It appears that you have incorporated many 3.x edition rules into your game. That's certainly reasonable, since that edition improved upon some of the older rules that weren't quite balanced.
ragnar wrote:
7. Spell points are now used. The points are based on your total spells/level, from the spell progression chart and with the bonus from (1) above. You get 1 point/spell/spell level. Further, you can cast ANY spells you know, at a cost of 1 point/level.
This is the only change I'd like to comment on, however. Spell points is a very simple way of working spellcasting, but it can be abused. What I mean is that 2nd level spells are not twice as powerful as 1st level spells, though the caster must pay twice the cost to cast them. As the spell levels increase, this discrepancy decreases, in my opinion (8th vs. 9th level, e.g.), but for low-level spells, it is a bit off.
As an example, take a 20th level wizard (who can cast spells as a 3.x ed. sorcerer, per your rule #2) who knows both fireball (no damage max, per rule #3) and chain lightning. A 20th level caster could hit about as many opponents in a close area with the chain lightning as he could with a fireball. The fireball does the same amount of damage to every victim, while the chain lightning's damage begins equal, but loses damage dice with each additional victim. Additionally, the fireball costs the caster only 3 spell points while the chain lightning costs him 6!
Now, I know that there are situations where the chain lightning will be more beneficial than a fireball, but you might as well compare fireball to lightning bolt in that case. They are the same level, and therefore their cost is equal, so that is acceptable.
1. In 2nd Edition, Magic Users gain an extra spell if they specialize. The sacrifice, of course, is not being able to cast any spells from you Oppositional School of Magic.
2. It sounds as though you're applying the spell casting "rule" for Sorcerer's to your Magic Users in general.
3. Do you mean "automatic" max damage? You are "rolling" for damage, yes?
5. I don't require training either. It's an unnecessary "rule " addition. Too time consuming for Role Play and if you're not going to "role play" it, why bother with it? Are "you" just looking for something else to "say" during game play? A waste of time.
6. Sounds fair, but makes healing such a person during battle seem like a wasted spell. Of course, the wounded (below zero) is slowly taking damage that will lead to death, but if all he can do is "lay there" after a quick healing (due to failure of the "system shock" roll) he's liable to be deliberate hit again and die anyway. He/she ought to at least be able to "crawl" out of the way, without being able to return to the fighting.
7. For the reason SirXaris mentions, I do not use this method.
8. Sounds as though it would be a waste to bother rolling for hp gained. On a 1d8+1 Cure Light Wounds, he automatically gets the "9" -- should the caster happen to be 9th level.
9. Sounds like you're just making the game "simpler" for yourself, poor players!
14. I require that they "find" new spells or visit their "old Mentor." I do not allow them to simply "know" the new spell. Beforehand, I will allow one, or two, spells that they cannot yet use -- a "gift" from their Mentor for when they "grew" in their abilities. I will also dictate what spells are in the Spell-book they just "found." I keep 4 or 5 Spell-books prepared just for that. Each Spell-book will duplicate spells -- meaning that if each Spell-book contains "10" spells and they find all 4 books, they will not not learn "40" new spells. Some spells will already be in their own book. But in each Spell-book they find, they will find two to four spells that they didn't already have.
15. You cannot fall down and not get hurt -- depending on the fall. No one survives a fall from a 5000 foot cliff, even if they do roll a "natural twenty."
16. We agree on Cantrip usage.
17. I prefer the "original" level drain. If not, what is there to fear? There are some monsters that I want my players to be scared of.
It appears that you have incorporated many 3.x edition rules into your game. That's certainly reasonable, since that edition improved upon some of the older rules that weren't quite balanced.
ragnar wrote:
7. Spell points are now used. The points are based on your total spells/level, from the spell progression chart and with the bonus from (1) above. You get 1 point/spell/spell level. Further, you can cast ANY spells you know, at a cost of 1 point/level.
This is the only change I'd like to comment on, however. Spell points is a very simple way of working spellcasting, but it can be abused. What I mean is that 2nd level spells are not twice as powerful as 1st level spells, though the caster must pay twice the cost to cast them. As the spell levels increase, this discrepancy decreases, in my opinion (8th vs. 9th level, e.g.), but for low-level spells, it is a bit off.
As an example, take a 20th level wizard (who can cast spells as a 3.x ed. sorcerer, per your rule #2) who knows both fireball (no damage max, per rule #3) and chain lightning. A 20th level caster could hit about as many opponents in a close area with the chain lightning as he could with a fireball. The fireball does the same amount of damage to every victim, while the chain lightning's damage begins equal, but loses damage dice with each additional victim. Additionally, the fireball costs the caster only 3 spell points while the chain lightning costs him 6!
Now, I know that there are situations where the chain lightning will be more beneficial than a fireball, but you might as well compare fireball to lightning bolt in that case. They are the same level, and therefore their cost is equal, so that is acceptable.
SirXaris
I'm actually trying to work with the players in this regard, as there is potential for abuse. The party now has a 10th level magicuser, which isn't that big a deal. However, with spell points that's potentially 40+ Magic Missile spells, at 5d4+5 a pop, and almost impossible to stop. It would get out of control.
I've brought this up with them, simply asking them to NOT abuse the system. I use it because it makes things much easier to do, especially in this format. It also gives them far more versatility, which they really like. However, I don't want to see them go too crazy. So far, they've been pretty good about things, with nothing getting out of hand yet. But believe me, I keep a VERY close eye on this!
1. In 2nd Edition, Magic Users gain an extra spell if they specialize. The sacrifice, of course, is not being able to cast any spells from you Oppositional School of Magic.
2. It sounds as though you're applying the spell casting "rule" for Sorcerer's to your Magic Users in general.
3. Do you mean "automatic" max damage? You are "rolling" for damage, yes?
5. I don't require training either. It's an unnecessary "rule " addition. Too time consuming for Role Play and if you're not going to "role play" it, why bother with it? Are "you" just looking for something else to "say" during game play? A waste of time.
6. Sounds fair, but makes healing such a person during battle seem like a wasted spell. Of course, the wounded (below zero) is slowly taking damage that will lead to death, but if all he can do is "lay there" after a quick healing (due to failure of the "system shock" roll) he's liable to be deliberate hit again and die anyway. He/she ought to at least be able to "crawl" out of the way, without being able to return to the fighting.
7. For the reason SirXaris mentions, I do not use this method.
8. Sounds as though it would be a waste to bother rolling for hp gained. On a 1d8+1 Cure Light Wounds, he automatically gets the "9" -- should the caster happen to be 9th level.
9. Sounds like you're just making the game "simpler" for yourself, poor players!
14. I require that they "find" new spells or visit their "old Mentor." I do not allow them to simply "know" the new spell. Beforehand, I will allow one, or two, spells that they cannot yet use -- a "gift" from their Mentor for when they "grew" in their abilities. I will also dictate what spells are in the Spell-book they just "found." I keep 4 or 5 Spell-books prepared just for that. Each Spell-book will duplicate spells -- meaning that if each Spell-book contains "10" spells and they find all 4 books, they will not not learn "40" new spells. Some spells will already be in their own book. But in each Spell-book they find, they will find two to four spells that they didn't already have.
15. You cannot fall down and not get hurt -- depending on the fall. No one survives a fall from a 5000 foot cliff, even if they do roll a "natural twenty."
16. We agree on Cantrip usage.
17. I prefer the "original" level drain. If not, what is there to fear? There are some monsters that I want my players to be scared of.
Overall, your "House Rules" don't sound too bad to me. I could probably "get along" with you DMing me.
Boy, multiple topics are tough in a big quote. OK, I'll just number my responses!
1. Yes, specialists do get that too. However, I always used the int bonus because it seemed that low-level wizards were simply lame. They get their one sleep spell, then it's "hide in the back" until the party rests. It's not like the fighters only get to swing once! So this always gave a few more spells, which helped. At later levels, it didn't make a huge impact.
2. I guess you can say that. Personally, I just never liked the memorize spells thing. So I always played with magicusers being more like sorcerers. Of course, that goes all the way back to before there were sorcerers. We did this back before 2nd ed too.
3. I seem to recall this came about as a response to some spells which had their damage capped in 2nd ed. For instance, Magic Missile in 1st ed was 1 missile/2 levels. A 15th level wizard would thus fire 8. In 2nd ed this was capped at 5 max. We wanted to play without the caps; however, I'm contemplating dropping this now. The caps would help to reign in the extra power wizards in my campaign have on account of the spell points and no need to memorize spells. I may have to do this really soon, in fact.
4. Wow, no comment on the crits?
5. Yeah, I always felt the same way. It was more of a distraction for us. I think it was also a tool to take excess gold from the characters as well. Personally, I have had NO PROBLEM finding other dastardly ways to do this!
6. Actually, I ended up changing this. No system shock is required anymore. Magical healing is just that, magical. Individuals magically healed can always act the round after the healing with no penalties. I guess I need to edit this one!
7. see above. :) I am also considering a few other customizations. For instance, making spells cost double if they try to cast more than the number they would normally be allowed at each level. For instance, the 10th level wizard could cast 4 1st level spells. So, after 4 total have been cast, any more 1st level spells would start costing 2 points each. After another 4 have been cast, they start costing 3 points each, etc. This would immediately help to limit using the points to cast too many low-level spells, but would still allow the possibility, especially in a pinch, of doing so. On the other hand, it would require more record-keeping; our desire to avoid that is mostly what led to this in the first place. Hmm, I do have some thinking to do here I think.
8. That's exactly right. All the priests are now 8th level, so that presents an interesting decision. In down times, they simply use CLW at 8hp each to do the healing. It's much more cost effective casting a maxed CLW than a CSW and rolling. However, in combat they still often cast the more powerful ones, as they need to get as many hit points recovered as possible. If I start to adjust things as I mentioned above (rule 7), I imagine there'd be some changes to how the party uses this as well.
9. Absolutely!
11. I will post a separate thing here, so you can see what I did. Basically, I added up all the proficiencies, and I came up with about 175, from all books and supplements. Well, a 20th level character will have what, about 15 max? I thought that was rather ridiculous, and it just made tons of proficiencies never be used. Here I pulled a page from 3rd ed as far as giving players more, and now they really use them. It's been a pretty big success. I'll post my system later.
12. No comment here either? Man, I thought for sure there'd be something said about this! Seriously, some of those spells are crazy. I will say the netbook of prayers has been a HUGE hit. I just have had to take each spell individually and judge it for my campaign. Some spells are dropped, like Comprehend Languages and Repair. They were just making the priest too much like a wizard. I mean, they were straight copies of wizard spells! So, I eliminated those kinds of spells. Some were changed, like Thorgrim's favorite spell, Battle Cry:
Battle Cry (Enchantment/Charm)
Sphere: Combat, Vengeance
Range: 0
Components: V, S
Duration: 6 rounds
Casting Time: 2
Area of Effect: 60 yards + 10 yards per level radius
Saving Throw: None
Author: Dan Alexander Thompson <dant@cs.utexas.edu>
At the culmination of this spell, the priest utters a deafening cry or shriek drawing the attentions of all hostile creatures within the area of effect. 1d6 HD of these creatures per level of the priest are stunned for 1d3 rounds; this affects creatures with the lowest Hit Dice first. Creatures over 3 HD get a saving throw. All affected creatures will thereafter attempt to physically attack the priest, foregoing any other actions. The desire to hunt down the priest will remain for 6 rounds or until the priest is slain.
At the same time, all friendly creatures within the range of the spell receive the benefit of a bless spell (+1 to attack rolls and saving throws). Friendly creatures also receive a +1 to their morale checks as long as the priest remains alive. Undead or creatures with Intelligence less than 5 are not affected by this spell.
I thought it was too powerful for a 1st level spell, and changed it to 3rd level. Anyway, the netbook has been lots of fun to use, and I ESPECIALLY use it for badguys, much to my players' dismay!
13. Counterspells have turned out to RARELY be used. The wizards always seem to have better options than waiting. However, there have been a couple of times when this turned out to be pretty wisely done. Still, it really hasn't had the impact I thought it would.
14. I think we have a thread about this somewhere, don't we? Pretty sure I mentioned this. I don't make it easy for my players to learn new spells. They have to take the requisite time back home to learn them, so whatever they find on the road, be it spellbooks or scrolls, they can't "learn" them. The only learning I allow is from another character. If they are being tutored in another spell by another wizard, I let that occur "off camera" so to speak. It's assumed they talk about it, practice, etc. in down time. After 1 week/spell level, they can learn it. I'll have to post something about how I do spell acquistion in general.
15. yeah, players REALLY don't like falls IMC.
16. Sweet. Hepla actually uses cantrips all the time, usually in a role-playing manner. That's exactly how I hoped they'd be used, so it works fine. Glad you approve! :)
17. Yeah, I have to admit I was tossed up on this a bit. However, I really have always disliked how disproportionately bad this became at higher levels. It was weird how the higher your level was, the worse you were affected by even a simply undead like a wraith. Consider two examples. A 5th level wizard at the midpoint (30,000exp) would drop to midpoint of 4th level (15,000exp). That's a 15,000exp drop. If a 10th level wizard (300,000exp rougly), is drained to 9th, she drops to 200,000 roughly. That's 100,000 exp! I never liked that. So, I tweaked the system. It took a long time for me to do this, for I couldn't find a way to preserve the fear that level-draining always had. You are right; that SHOULD be maintained. I think I found a cool solution. I'll post it too! :)
I try to not make the changes too crazy. In fact, most have been for either simplicity, or to make the game flow more easily via play on a board like this. Overall, it's been pretty successful. Hey, I've gone from about 5 original players to a party of 11 now. Seems everyone wants to play, so we must be doing something right! If I could just get each of my players to kick down a few hundred bucks a month, then I could quit my dad job and do this full time!
Here's just a copy/paste from my site, to show what I ended up doing:
I must also add, I have finally decided how to deal with level drains. IMO that is the most terrible thing to deal with in DnD, short of death. Heck, it's often easier to come back to life! Well, not in my campaign! Anyway, I have problems with level draining. First, I don't want to make it NOT bad, because it IS one of the few things that cause fear in players. However, there are things that don't make sense.
First, all things in DnD are LESS-DANGEROUS as you gain levels, except this. True, the low level guy can't take too many before he's turned into undead himself, but the commensurate loss of exp is WAY worse to high-level type. Since you drop to the midpoint of the previous level, here are some examples, assuming you are midway to the next level. The 5th level fighter drops from 24,000 to 12,000, a loss of 12K. The 10th level fighter drops from 625,000 to 375,000, a loss of 250,000! And it gets worse! A 5th level wizard drops from 30,000 to 15,000, a loss of 15K. A 13th level wizard drops from 1,250,000 to 925,000, a loss of 325,000!!! It's a loss that gets progressively worse as you get to higher levels.
Now, that wouldn't be so bad, but it takes a long time to raise levels in ADnD, and since we take such a long time to do anything, it is even doubly bad. I give out old-school value of EXP for treasure, which helps a lot once you get it back home. I also give lots of bonuses, to make up for not really wanting to waste time figuring out percentages and such. The paucity of magic, at least lately, also limits you a bit too. All this makes energy drains even worse.
Third, the loss of levels is a HUGE pain in the **** when it comes to things like hit points, proficiencies, etc. I really don't like the idea of recalculating everything. In fact, reading online forums I found that nobody really does. DMs generally don't like such things, but they also don't like to limit the drastic consequences of level drains. Most seem to either just play it as is, those are the traditionalists, or have house rules. I think I'll be the later.
Here's what I'm doing:
Effects of Level Drains:
1) You simply record the level drain in parenthesis next to your level as a NEGATIVE LEVEL so we know what they are.
2) For every negative level, you suffer a -1 to EVERYTHING: abilities, thaco, damage, saving throws, and opponents saves vs. your own magic! Pretty much, you just take on a -1 to everything you do. You simply apply the -1 to everything. That way you don't actually recalculate everything. It's really easy!
3) Your hit points suffer a loss of X% of your total hit points where X is the number of Negative Levels. For instance. Emyn had two Negative Levels. He was 8th level, so that was 1/4 of his levels. He thus was suffering from a temporary reduction of his MAX hit points equal to 1/4 of his total. He had 77, so 1/4 was 19.25. I rounded the fraction up, so his temporary maximum was 77-20=57.
4) You spell points will suffer an EQUAL percentage drop.
5) You do NOT lose any proficiencies, abilities, spells, etc. Everything stays unchanged, but you simply accumulate Negative Levels.
6) If ANY of your abilities drop to 0 it is treated as if you were drained of all levels.
Recovering from Level Drains:
1) Some magic items will do it, like the Potion of Restoration which Emyn just used. I won't bother listing them; I really have no idea anyway. Just know that some magic items will do it.
2) Some spells too will do it. Again, I won't bother trying to list them all, but I'll try.
Priest spells: Quest (that just seems to make sense, a heroic quest of redemption of sorts); Restoration
Wizard spells: Limited Wish, Energy Drain (in essence stealing somebody else's levels just like an undead!), Wish
3) Time. With FULL REST, you have a cumulative 10% chance/month of recovering one. However, this is only for ONE negative level. If you lost two or more, they must be recovered one at a time. Negative Levels will thus take a while to fade away, though generally they won't be permanent as before. Also, if you gain enough EXP that you would have recovered from the lost level according to the standard rules, then it is healed as well. For instance, lets take Emyn. He had gained TWO Negative Levels. Since he was 8th, he'd have dropped to 6th, and his EXP would have dropped to midway between 6th and 7th (48,000 exp). Having 200,000 EXP, this would have amounted to a loss of 152,000 EXP!!! In the old rules, he'd also have PERMANENTLY LOST THEM, and we'd have had to adjust EVERYTHING. Then he'd just be two levels lower and move on. This way, if he didn't recover them in any other way, he'd have naturally healed one after either resting until they were healed or by gaining more EXP. Since he'd have needed another 16,000 EXP to raise to 7th, he'd lose the first Negative Level after gaining another 16,000 EXP. His next one would only be gained after another 61,000 (the amount it would have taken for him to get from 7th to 8th. The difference is, he would STILL be gaining regular EXP. He currently has 200,000 and needs to get to 300,000 to get to 9th. So, what would have happened is this. He'd keep adventuring as usual, but as soon as he hit 216,000 he'd have healed the first Negative Level. When he then hit 277,000 he'd have healed the second. Then, when he reached 300,000 he'd gain his next level normally. It's actually a very simple system to use. What I will do is just put a number in blue on your sheet, so you know at which point the negative levels disappear.
4) Permanency. When you DO recover from the Negative Level from rest (NOT from Magic), you must make a System Shock. If you fail, the negative level stays with you. In THIS case you then can only recover it by gaining EXP according to the standard practice. So, you calculate the difference between where you currently are and the mid-way point of the level to which you WOULD have been drained. When you gain that much more EXP, the Negative Level goes away. This is NOT the same as losing EXP. You don't lose anything. It simply gives you a marker for when the negative level WILL go away.
Basically, it's a very easy system. You really don't ever have to calculate much, and the levels aren't lost like they used to be. Their recovery, if not by magic, is a long process, but you don't really lose all your abilities in the mean time. Rather, you suffer Negative Levels until they go away. You can check out Emyn's sheet to see how I recorded it. It shows up in Red after his level, and in Blue is the EXP point he needs to reach to heal it, unless he heals it in some other way.
So, that's it. Reading it now, it seems complicated as all get out. However, it really didn't come out that way. Emyn regained his first lost level pretty soon, but suffered for months of game play with the other one. Ragr's gnome suffered 6 level drains. His character would have been dropped to 2nd level if playing the regular rules. This way, he was still 8th level; but boy was he weakened. -6 to everything was no joke. He has actually spent nearly 9 months recovering in Hommlet, while the rest of the party has gone off on further adventures. Poor Filbin!
Yeah, I have to admit I was tossed up on this a bit. However, I really have always disliked how disproportionately bad this became at higher levels . . . A 5th level wizard at the midpoint (30,000exp) would drop to midpoint of 4th level (15,000exp). That's a 15,000exp drop. If a 10th level wizard (300,000exp roughly), is drained to 9th, she drops to 200,000 roughly. That's 100,000 exp!
So true, but, I think the thing that you are forgetting is that 10th level Adventuring parties do not battle kobolds, they start fighting creatures with a great deal more hit points, thus allotting much more xp to the players.
In other words, a 10th level character who drops to 9th level, should not have to take weeks of gaming to climb back up to 10th level.
But I'm waiting to see what your "solution" to your dilemma was.
Edit: Doh! You beat me to it!
Seems you try to balance making the damage not so "harmful," with making it very difficult to recover. With the "rules" written the way they are, a player recovers his levels simply by . . . playing!
Yes, players do not like it. However, they have the option to rest. This adds a note of realism, in that they may have to spend a few months of down time. In the end, they prefer not losing level permanently, but yes, it's a pretty big compromise. Honestly, I could do without it, going with the standard rules. I've contemplated changing it back. I think the effort I went into coming up with this is what stops me; I don't want to think of it as wasted time!
I like your solution to energy drain attack from certain creatures. It still makes for a big impact without readjusting a ton of stuff earned from each level lost. I had players that lost four level in an undead attack. Talk about a long road to recovery and trying to figure out the proper way to remove stuff. A very time consuming and tedious chore.
I once toyed around with a spell point system for my game as well. I went away from it because IMO it mimics psionic powers points from 2nd edition.
I am working on retooling the psionic rules as I believe 3rd edition did not get psionics right. 2nd edition did a better job IMO with those set of rules. Green Ronin created a 3rd edition book which draws heavily from the 2nd edition rules for psionics. The one thing me and Green Ronin agreed on was the term is psychic not psionicist. I too will use 2nd edition as my source material and work from there.
Dang, had a big reply and I guess it didn't post. :(
No, we use a forum similar to this one. It allows for much easier communication, use of Private Messages, posting maps/images/etc. It works really well. It just takes a bit getting used to. Some thing go very slowly, depending upon who is available. Sometimes combats take a long time, especically if they are important ones. If they aren't that important, I run a lot of PCs following their SOPs. However, if it's a more critical combat, I take it slowly so everyone can equally partake of it.
Other things like role-playing are maybe easier to do. People can write out their role-playing in a way that is sometimes superior to FtF play. That has allowed some very good developments, and when combined with the ease of doing things secretly, via private messages, there have been other great side effects. Spells like invisibility and illusions have caused a lot of confusion.
To rival "the Old One" would require adding Vecna to the game.
In my defense, however, a Dread Necromancer (class) has powers a regular Necromancer doesn't. And -- at 20th level -- the Dread Necromancer automatically transforms into a Lich.
Your group is not yet ready to face a 20th level Dread Necromancer!
No, though I must say, with 11 players around 10th level, they are quite formidable. However, the mass death powers of such an NPC would be quite stunning. I may have to lighten up on the raise dead/ressurection. I basically make it difficult, which translates into players being more careful and less ...stupid. Well, sometimes. :) They are doing an expedition into the Suss Forest right now, looking for the lost city of the Suloise; however, I'm thinking they "may" be ready for the giants series next. We'll see.
OK, I finally made the change to my spell point system. The mages were simply over-powered, and I had to do something. Remember, IMC they do NOT memorize spells. I've always played that way, just to give them more flexibility. Now going to a spell point system had spiraled out of control. So, here's how I reigned it in:
Spell Points and Spells/level (copied from my game)
I'm making an adjustment to how magic works. My spell point system is still going to be used. However, I actually am re-instituting the spells/level. You aren't going to be limited to them, but I will now keep track of them on the Player Notes thread. Once you use the max number of spells of a given level, the cost will double if you cast more of that level. If you go over the max again, the cost triples, etc..
Here's the rationale. Let's just take Hepla. She's a 10th level mage. Her spell points are: 52. Her spells/level are: 1st (6), 2nd (6), 3rd (4), 4th (3), 5th (1). By the RaW, she would have a max of 6 1st level spells. That's good, as something like Magic Missile does a lot of damage, is nearly unstoppable, and she could cast it 52 times! Now she's going to be more limited. Once she casts 6 1st level spells, any further ones will start costing "2" points. If she goes beyond her limit again (i.e. has cast 12 1st level spells) the cost goes up by another increment! So, while you will still have quite a bit more flexibility than virtually any other mages in DnD, I will now use the standard spells/level to add in a slight brake to this flexibility. For the most part, not much will change. For those of you to whom I've spoken about limiting spells to try and not take advantage of my spell point system, you can now ignore that. This should be totally enough.
For me there are a few other considerations. With the spell point system, coupled with no memorization, mages are now getting far too powerful. Not just their ability to deal damage, but they do other things which they may not otherwise do. Hepla thinks nothing of casting a Polymorph Self on herself all the time. Well, she will think better of it now, since she only has three 4th level spells. Together with other staples, like Stoneskin, she'd be limited to one spell left, before starting to pay 8 points for a 4th level spell. With a straight point system, she could throw a stoneskin on herself and Emyn, while Polymorphing into a dragon, and STILL have 40 points left! That's 13 lightning bolts!!!
Now this is going to limit excessive spell use due to my VERY lenient magic system. It doesn't stop you from casting spells, but it makes them cost more if you overdo it. Simple and effecting, and basically preserves the point system and non-memorizing, which I like.
I also decided to dump Weapon Expertise, or to just change it. Along with the spell point system I use, I was seeing that the fighters in the party are simply too powerful. It's multiple attacks more than anything else, and these all derive from Weapon Expertise, which I believe came out in the Combat & Tactics book. Anyway, I just revised how I do that as well. Here is what I did:
Weapon of Choice
Any character can designate a SINGLE SPECIFIC weapon as his favorite. He or she must be proficient with that weapon already, and even if the proficiency he possesses applies to an entire tight or broad group, the weapon of choice must be designated. It costs one weapon proficiency slot for Weapon of Choice.
A player can declare a weapon of choice when he first creates a character, or at any point thereafter—as long as he has the free proficiency slot. They should receive some training or extensive practice from a warrior who is proficient in the same weapon and has a higher experience level than the trainee.
A character receives a +1 bonus on all attack rolls when using his weapon of choice.
Weapon Specialization
Weapon Specialization stays as mentioned in the PHB. It is ONLY available to single-classed FIGHTER characters. Specialists get a +1 bonus to attack rolls and a +2 to damage. They also use the specialist number of attacks table with specialized weapons.
Specialists may also take multiple weapon specializations in different weapons.
Weapon Specialization STACKS with Weapon of Choice! Thus, a single-classed fighter with Weapon of Choice AND Weapon Specialization will have a bonus of +2 to hit AND damage.
Weapon Expertise
This is very similar to Weapon Specialization. It is available to any warriors EXCEPT single-classed Fighters which use Weapon Specialization instead. It is not available until a character reaches 4th level. It can ONLY be taken with a Weapon of Choice.
A character with Weapon Expertise receives a +2 damage bonus with his Weapon of Choice.
Thus, by taking Weapon of Choice AND Weapon Expertise, a warrior (other than a single-classed Fighter) will end up with a +1 to hit and +2 damage. This is exactly like Weapon Specialization, but without the extra attacks/round.
Weapon Mastery
This pretty much stays the same. A fighter character must have reached a minimum of 8th level before he can become a weapon master. At each level thereafter, a character may take Weapon Mastery in another weapon, providing he already has the prerequisite Weapon Specialization in said weapon.
Effects of Mastery: A master’s attack and damage bonuses with a melee weapon are both +3. With a missile weapon, the attack bonus becomes a +2 at all ranges beyond point blank. At point blank range the attack and damage bonuses are each +3.
Actually, I posted twice in the last year or so looking for Greyhawkers. I would LOVE to have more of us there. My group is mostly NOT familiar, but that's been cool too.
I currently have 11 players which is a bit much. I'm not planning to take more, but I am also looking at dropping some people if they can't participate more. We'll see. But the door is "mostly" open. :)
Sometimes while I post the stories, I can't believe how much we successfully have done through forum playing. I've actually gotten quite a kick out of reading the stories again. I may have to post them all to my game forums so my players can read them again too!
Having just posted the part from a couple years ago when the party played with a Deck of Many Things, I realized how much I forgot to continue to incorporate into the game. Many things were used as either hooks or as MAJOR changes to character stories and such. However, I totally dropped the ball and forgot to continue with other stuff. Thanks to doing these campaign journals, I have remembered something rather important. Good to know it's not a total waste of time! :)
Sorry about that, Ragnar. I do read through them when I get the chance, but I am much busier now than I was a few months back and don't have as much time to post as I used to. Note that I haven't had an opportunity to catch up my own campaign blog in many months.
Yes, it seems everyone's slowed down. I haven't seen a post for Cebrion's pathfinder game in over a month either. Mine are just summaries of play from last few years. In some ways they are easier to do, since I just have to do copy/paste (with some editing here and there) and then post. However, going through all the posts to do the stories can be tough too.
Wow, Sir Xaris is channeling Chris Perkins with all this talk of TPKs!
Ragnar's game is quite entertaining. He's managed to take almost the same set of players I have in two other campaigns and turn them into something other than hack and slash. My parties resemble the attitude of the three male players in The Gamers: Dorkness Rising. Oh look we have an NPC! Let's get him killed so we can loot the body! Oh look, we have a potion of invisibility so we can sneak over and do some scouting...oh...the drow thief decided to walk through the towns and engage in small talk with the paladin guard force even though she is first level...gah!
So, I have altered how my game works, and I thought I'd give you an update. I took away the magicuser bonus spells (1). With three wizards of 8-10th level, this essentially gave the party the equivalent of a 4th wizard. And since I do NOT require memorizing, their magical ability was getting far too strong.
I dropped the need for system shocks (rule 6). They just get back up again.
I dropped spell points (rule 7) which had gotten out of hand. On one adventure, after the 12th consecutive 5d4+5 Magic Missile spell by one wizard, I figured, "enough is enough." I just go by the original spells/level system now. The only change is I let them use higher level spells to cast lower level ones. That still gives them some added versatility, but with a price.
I dropped counterspells (rule 13). It was almost never used, so I just went back to the old Dispel Magic as a counterspell.
ragnar wrote:
I thought I'd post my house rules also, to see what other DMs, particularly those who play via online media think of them. Some of them are for ease of play. Some are just things I've always done.
Anyway, here they are:
1. Magicusers gain bonus spells according to intelligence just like clerics to with Widsom.
2. Spells do NOT have to be memorized. Any spellcaster, cleric, etc, can cast any spell they can cast. You still have to follow the rules on numbers of spells/level you can cast, you just don't have to memorize before hand. Basically, you gain much versatility. Remember, opposing spellcasters follow the same rule too!
3. No max on spell damage, just like 1st ed. Won't matter for us 1st level guys though. Maybe someday it will mater though.
4. Critical hits will be used, following the tables in the Dragon Article "Good hits and bad misses." The basic system is simple, for every point that you either make or fail an attack roll, that is your chance for a critical. For instance, if you need a 7 to hit and roll a 15 (after modifiers of course), you'd have an 8% chance of a critical. If you rolled a 5 (after modifiers) you'd have a 2% chance of a fumble. As you can tell, the more you progress, the more often you will get criticals rather than fumbles. Unfortunately, this holds true for your foes as well.
5. I'm doing the leveling up more like the computer games. No training, when you have enough you simply are the next level.
6. If you receive MAGICAL healing to bring you back above 0 you can make a system shock roll. Success means you may INSTANTLY begin to take normal actions again. Failure means you must have a day of complete rest first. A Heal spell will eliminate this period.
7. Spell points are now used. The points are based on your total spells/level, from the spell progression chart and with the bonus from (1) above. You get 1 point/spell/spell level. Further, you can cast ANY spells you know, at a cost of 1 point/level.
8. For cure spells, the minimum amount cured will be the caster's level.
9. Illusions KISS rule: Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't try super elaborate and complicated things that make my head explode. If you are going to copy some spell effect, I will use the rules of the actual spell copied. If you decide to go BEYOND the rules, say to make the "perfect fireball" then your targets will get a free chance to disbelieve the spell. This will be IN ADDITION to the normal save vs spells. So, if you try to throw an illusionary fireball, then the targets get a save for half-damage. If you want to cast one that has no save, they will instead save to disbelieve, success of which will mean no effect whatsoever and the knowledge that they are dealing with an illusionist. So, better to stick to the laws of magic, unless you want to risk worse failures.
10. Illusionary creatures: They attack at your combat ability. As long as you concentrate on the illusion, you can keep it fighting; however, if you do anything "beyond the norm" then your targets will get a save to disbelieve.
11. Expanded Proficiency system: complicatedly simple
12. You may use spells from the Great Netbook of Prayers, just ask me first to make sure it's ok.
13. Counterspells: If you ready a counterspell action, then you can counter anything that happens later than your move during a round. If the spell cast against you is one you KNOW, you can cast a like spell to counter it. You create your spell, subtly reversed to counter the opposing spell. Countering in such a case is automatic. If it's a spell you don't know, you can use Dispel Magic with normal chances. No spontaneous castings. I think this would basically only be used by you guys. The wizards can take a defensive roll, especially in situations where the warriors get into combat, and counter enemy wizards. If you don't act, but keep the counterspell action readied for the next round, then you are considered to automatically go first, giving you the ability to "interrupt" anything that round.
14. Spell Aquisition and Casting Directly from a Spellbook
15. Falling Damage: 1d6 first 10', +2d6 next, +3d6 next, to max of 20d6. I.E. 30' fall will be 6d6 damage (1+2+3).
16. Cantrips: (Use unlimited number at will)
17. Level Drains: negative levels rather than losing level. Basically, you don't end up losing levels, but accrue negative modifiers. It's kinda complicated, and I can explain it if people are interested. : )
Yeah some players are one trick ponies with their spells. It gets a little dull. Maybe if they were restricted to a single casting of any spell each day that might make them more judicious.
You will have to signup there if you want to be in it. It's free, so not really a big deal.
Anyway, I'm looking for a couple of people who want to be in a GH online game. We do it through a bulletin board, just like here really. You post as much as you can, without much worry about not being around sometimes. We do the best we can. We don't do chats, or stuff like that. It's all done with posts.
I would be interested in joining your group some day if you do not mind taking someone that has been on the DM side of things most of the time.
Right now I am running two email games as well as the occasional sit down game and am a bit short on time. Some day, however, I would like to jump in. Please keep me in mind if you keep your PBEmail games going.
I have enjoyed your storytelling and really think your players take the extra time to develop their characters.
Your invite will be openended. Just let me know when you think the time works out. I actually don't generally require too much of the players. Some are much more restricted than others in terms of time online, based on work, family, etc. It's not uncommon for some to post only once or twice a day sometimes!
I will look forward to it. In the meantime, I will try and learn a little more about your house rules.
As a side note, if I were to log on to the website where you play, would I be able to follow your game even if I was not a current player?
In the games I play by email, I have the player's email me and then I post. Most of the players are from my childhood gaming group and in this way it keeps the players guessing at who's character belongs to whom.
I would be interested in following how you play to see how it works and get a better feel for when I can join.
There is a line in the movie True Romance that references the naming of a movie. I think of when I look at the lack of energy I put into my name. It is uncouth, so I won't quote it.
Easy and free to sign up. Pretty much no rules there, except to be good to each other. No censorship, so it's very old school. I'm an admin, and within my game I try to to maintain the Balance. How very Gygaxian of me! :)
Anyway, it is my online Greyhawk campaign, and in this brand new version we are starting 1st level characters in the Riftcanyon. The year is late 581, right before all the big events of the Wars. So, if anyone is interested in joining, let me know. We are a 2nd ed game, mostly, though I tend to allow certain 1st ed classes too. I'm pretty open to weird stuff. I have some house rules, and if you want in I can spell out more for you.
We just started, and the party is just sorta feeling their way around the edge of the Rift right now, so it's a perfect time to jump in. Here is the party so far:
Alderwulf: 1st level Human Paladin of Hextor (Illriger from Dragon #106)
Belmorn: 1st level Minotaur Fighter (Zol's Hand, a unique kit)
Kassandra: 1st level Half-gnoll Druid (Oracle)
Meepo Deathstrike: 1st level kobold Thief (Shadow)
Tessa Mahler: 1st level Human Magicuser
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